I think that the height of ballast shoulders is often underestimated. In fact I often wish I had made the ones on my layout higher. I'd also put money on that if you ask any experienced modeller what was the thing they hated most, ballasting track would be near the top of the list.

Quote from: H on October 12, 2013, 07:46:47 AM
I've yet to see a layout with Unitrack that is as realistically convincing, and where the ballast base doesn't look plasticky and/or doesn't tower excessively over the surrounding details. I guess the effort of blending it in (lowering it or building up around it) to disguise those issues is too much effort and is easier with Peco.

Below a couple views of my ballasted Kato track. Whether it's "realistically convincing" I'll leave to you to decide.

But I think that with a bit of care it isn't difficult to build up the surrounding landscape to the height of the track -- and certainly much easier that doing the equivalent with Peco flexitrack, i.e., cutting underlay to the right size and tacking down a suitable curve without twists or gaps between lengths of rail. Ballasting around Kato points has to be done with a little extra care, if only to make sure that glue and ballast don't get into the mechanism, but again, this aspect is generally much easier that doing the same thing with Peco points.

Weathering makes a huge difference, taking away the glossiness of the plastic. I find an airbrush reduces this job to literally a few minutes work!

Cheers, NeMo

Quote from: H on October 12, 2013, 07:46:47 AM
However, I've never been convinced that it can be made fully realistic, and that is where properly ballasted Peco track (and now the FinetraX system) wins. The lower rail section/code and ability to use real ballast looks better.

Well, I would say that NeMo's pictures above look pretty good!  I have done a less thorough job on Lofthole but I think it looks tolerable with a bit of weathering and ground raising:



But I think I would agree with the thrust of your argument, H - having used it for Lofthole I have not become a fan - the effort involved in making it look good seems greater than that in laying and ballasting code 55, and there is the problem of the #4 points.  I won't be using it again.

Cheers    Jon   

NeMo your photos demonstrate my point. The track looks great. I am in the position where I am not starting a new layout and am stuck with Peco code 80. I hope to finish my layout with Peco code 55, but work such as yours is very convincing.... and I am convinced that blending it in has got go be more interesting and less tedious than the dropper, water and soap.

The only worry I have is the sweeping curves but EP seems to have covered that.

Anyway we are all a bit off topic here.. Dapol Kato set. 

Quote from: NeMo on October 12, 2013, 08:36:39 AM

Below a couple views of my ballasted Kato track. Whether it's "realistically convincing" I'll leave to you to decide.

But I think that with a bit of care it isn't difficult to build up the surrounding landscape to the height of the track -- and certainly much easier that doing the equivalent with Peco flexitrack, i.e., cutting underlay to the right size and tacking down a suitable curve without twists or gaps between lengths of rail.

Not bad, but unfortunately I'm still not convinced.

With Peco track there is no need for building up the surrounding landscape (that just adds time, effort, cost and weight to the layout/project) and there's certainly no need for underlay. Plus of course with Unitrack you still end up with code 80 rail compared with the code 55/40 of Peco/fiNetracK/Easitrack and they give you the ability to lay proper transition curves.

H.

A "not bad" from you is high praise indeed! 

Of course you are quite right that Kato Unitrack will never be the perfect medium for creating a totally authentic model railway. But it can be a very good start, I think, and you can make a pretty good layout using just Kato track. Many Americans do (for example here).

If we recall what the original poster was asking, whether or not (and I paraphrase) paying £50 for a circle of Kato track and a Kato controller is worth it, then on balance this thread seems to suggest that it is. Whether or not a beginner sticks with Kato track is a more complicated question, and as you say H, there are good reasons who a modeller might not want to use Kato track. But at the same time there are good reasons to stick with Kato too, which I think we've thoroughly hashed out here now. At the end of the day, £50 for an oval of Kato track and a controller is certainly not money wasted, and as I said earlier, even if you choose to use Peco for the main layout, it's very high reliability when used for temporary table-top ovals make it handy stuff to have when running-in new models.

Cheers, NeMo

Quote from: H on October 12, 2013, 10:24:18 AM
Not bad, but unfortunately I'm still not convinced.

One of the things that surprised me about my first N gauge train set (the Merseyside Express) was how poorly the track stayed together.  Despite what the instructions may have said, fixing track to a baseboard wasn't just desirable it was essential.  If I were looking to buy a starter train set today I'd be quite tempted by that one.

As for the height issue, by the time you've used some underlay the track sits quite high above the baseboard anyway.  I'm having to raise ground level on my layout to address this issue.

Quote from: johnlambert on October 13, 2013, 01:33:17 PM

As for the height issue, by the time you've used some underlay the track sits quite high above the baseboard anyway.  I'm having to raise ground level on my layout to address this issue.

The simple solution is not to use underlay. Besides there is absolutely no good reason to use it if the track bed is firm and flat. If you ballast to the sleeper tops there's no problem in forming a realistic and prototypical shoulder at the edge.

H.

Considering that the track pack alone can be bought for as little as £55 (+p&p) in this country, or imported for around £50 (and less if you know where to look, including shipping), I'd day the set does not represent value for money. You're basically paying for the convenience of having all of the items packaged together.

Bought separately, right now, I can find

3 BR Maroon colletts for £17 each and Late Crest Green Hall for £95 from Hattons, so £4 delivery. £150
Kato unitrack pack M1 for $63.95 inc shipping + VAT and PO fee gives £56.08.
Total £206.08 delivered, and thats without looking for cheaper track packs or going in to bargain bins and looking for cheaper locos/coaches.

Kato track certainly has its place in modelling thanks to its chucktogetherability and generally robust electrical continuity, I just find it rather limiting. Its like the Bachmann demo layout, nicely done setrack is still insanely curved with no transitions and fixed angles, it just doesn't flow smoothly. NeMos link demonstrates that perfectly, just look at those switchback curves. With longer more modern US vehicles, autoracks and 89' flats look absolutely hideous negotiating Unitrack and Peco setrack curvature, as do longer UK vehicles like Mk3 coaches, which is exactly why I use neither. I also find the cost per m of track quite unattractive given its limitations to produce the sort of layout that I prefer. This point in particular is very subjective though, I am of no uncertainty that others will have different needs from trackwork, and Kato provides a very useful range for them at a price they're happy with.

Ground level shouldn't be an issue. Ground level is rarely track level in real life, nor is ground level flat, so why must it be so on a model railway?

 

I have just had a look at the 2 Dapol Kato Commuter Sets,,the Osborne one priced at £210.00 is a special edition set,It has a GWR Hall special for them and 3 GWR Collett Coaches special for them again,the track and controller are the same as the one in the Ordinary Commuter Set.As for track I think it's a case of pay your money and take you choice.

I have the Dapol Auto train set,which I think has peco set track,but the controller in this set is a gauge master one,the problem is the track which has a habit of slipping apart, the fish plates don't seem to be a tight fit.this set cost me £105.00 which I think is good value for a starter set,considering the decent controller you get with it.

Mike

I think Rule 1 applies here

Nick R - proud owner of 200' of Unitrack!