Nelevation - an automatic smart fiddle yard

[Nelevation]

I was most impressed with you working unit at the show but as I run modern image bulk trains what would be the longest length you could go too?
I am looking at a loco and 20+ bogie wagons be them hoppers, tanks or freightliner wagons.
The cost of a kit would be of great interest to me.

Can you let me know how long (coupled length) your wagons are please? Thanks Allen

[MJKERR]

Just as a development thought
If there is demand for 1 metre and 2 metre units, then why not look at a design that allows consecutive units
It may mean some duplication at the joins of the units, but initially it will allow an economy of scales

Equally, I had a discussion with one of the layout owners present who instantly dismissed it as it wasn't long enough for their needs
Then I explained how I would be using it, and they agreed that for exhibitions the method I am looking at would indeed work

The main advantage for clubs would be the ability to use one unit on different layouts, replacement layouts, and so on

The final hurdle is transportation
For clubs this isn't usually a problem as vans are normally used

[Ben A]

Hi Allen,

Having spent the weekend next to you with our Pendolino I can tell you that there was one very influential group of visitors who seemed consistently impressed with the Nelevator: the wives/girlfriends etc.

I suspect this may be because it ticks the "nice, new, shiny" box.  Even forgetting the space saving advantages I overheard comments such as "I wouldn't mind that in the spare room."  To the wifely eye I suspect the Nelevator is significantly more attractive than unpainted plywood boards covered with track and wire!

One of the German modular guys (from Stuttgart I think) was very interested too - I told him to leave his email address in your book.  He said that similar, but smaller and less well put together, items are available on the continent but are hand built and cost upwards of 2000 Euros!!  Makes £600 seem like a snip!

I think you should consider marketing it in Europe, though I appreciate you may not want to run before you're walking!

Also, as I think I said to you, I am increasingly convinced that for many Exhibition layouts the Nelevator's advantage is not necessarily in completely replacing the fiddle yard, but in complementing it.  A 12' or 16' show layout has room for long sidings anyway, but a Nelevator in the middle could allow the width of the fiddle yard to be drastically reduced.  The Nelevator could be used for a wide variety of MUs or short passenger trains, trip freights or engineers trains while a handful of full-length sidings could be retained alongside to enable the operators to run additional long, realistic freights.

cheers

Ben A.

[Nelevation]

Hi Allen,

Having spent the weekend next to you with our Pendolino I can tell you that there was one very influential group of visitors who seemed consistently impressed with the Nelevator: the wives/girlfriends etc.

I suspect this may be because it ticks the "nice, new, shiny" box.  Even forgetting the space saving advantages I overheard comments such as "I wouldn't mind that in the spare room."  To the wifely eye I suspect the Nelevator is significantly more attractive than unpainted plywood boards covered with track and wire!

One of the German modular guys (from Stuttgart I think) was very interested too - I told him to leave his email address in your book.  He said that similar, but smaller and less well put together, items are available on the continent but are hand built and cost upwards of 2000 Euros!!  Makes £600 seem like a snip!

I think you should consider marketing it in Europe, though I appreciate you may not want to run before you're walking!

Also, as I think I said to you, I am increasingly convinced that for many Exhibition layouts the Nelevator's advantage is not necessarily in completely replacing the fiddle yard, but in complementing it.  A 12' or 16' show layout has room for long sidings anyway, but a Nelevator in the middle could allow the width of the fiddle yard to be drastically reduced.  The Nelevator could be used for a wide variety of MUs or short passenger trains, trip freights or engineers trains while a handful of full-length sidings could be retained alongside to enable the operators to run additional long, realistic freights.

cheers

Ben A.

Thanks Ben. I really appreciate your help. Yes, I agree. It was even described as being "pretty" by one wife. It would be fantastic to get some on the exhibition circuit to spread the word. We could offer clubs a discounted rate to promote the Nelevation brand and I wouldn't have to attend shows. Happy days! Ive contacted the UKTI who will help fund trade shows promoting export so a european show could definately be on the cards or even Japan (when we're fully developed)

When you get a minute please can you let me know the coupled lenth of the Pendalino coach and loco.

Cheers

Allen

[G_N_E_R]

From the show it looks like we could end up with 2 variants. One longer (to take an 11 car Pendalino) 2 metre track length. One shorter 1 metre for branch line duties.

Excellent! Now I can fit my eurostar and 225 in there!

[Nelevation]

Just as a development thought
If there is demand for 1 metre and 2 metre units, then why not look at a design that allows consecutive units
It may mean some duplication at the joins of the units, but initially it will allow an economy of scales

Equally, I had a discussion with one of the layout owners present who instantly dismissed it as it wasn't long enough for their needs
Then I explained how I would be using it, and they agreed that for exhibitions the method I am looking at would indeed work

The main advantage for clubs would be the ability to use on unit on different layouts, replacement layouts, and so on

The final hurdle is transportation
For clubs this isn't usually a problem as vans are normally used

Good thinking. I'll give this some thought as we would get economies of scale. We wouldnt want to duplicate the whole unit though as the electronics module is really expensive so we would have to have one driving unit and multiple slaves. It could be posiible.

Cheers

[Nelevation]

From the show it looks like we could end up with 2 variants. One longer (to take an 11 car Pendalino) 2 metre track length. One shorter 1 metre for branch line duties.

Excellent! Now I can fit my eurostar and 225 in there!

225 probably. 20 car Eurostar, No!

[MJKERR]

225 probably. 20 car Eurostar, No!

It could be possible with modular units
Measurements would need to be taken, and there would probably be waste

Personally for one such long train then a single separate track would be better
One of the layouts I looked at several years ago kept the centre track solely for their Eurostar train

It is one of the things I was considering when standing viewing the Nelevator, thinking in my head -
What if I put two units back to back...
Could they be synchronised, and would they need to be?

If I put my HST in the longer tracks to the front and rear...
Would I need even need two units?

If I kept one track clear on each side...
Could I store little used trains in the furthest away unit?

Many of my trains have locos that require to be detached...
How would I perform this if they are in the middle of the unit?

[daveg]

Looks a brilliant piece of kit and am eagerly awaiting further details.

Hoping that you have the concept/IP details 'protected' to avoid copycat theft of your design.

Wishing you every success, Allen.

Dave G

[Jools]

Very interested in this, it looks like a marvellous creation, and it could certainly find a home on my layout, but the discussion of differing lengths/modular units confuses me a bit -

I wasn't able to get to TINGS, so have only seen the snippets on the website... but from what I can see it looks like all the electrical & mechanical "gubbins" are at either end of the unit.. And it's just the aluminium sections between ... If that's the case - couldn't those be cut to any length required? - to make the unit however long or short as needed?

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

[Northern Git]

I was most impressed with you working unit at the show but as I run modern image bulk trains what would be the longest length you could go too?
I am looking at a loco and 20+ bogie wagons be them hoppers, tanks or freightliner wagons.
The cost of a kit would be of great interest to me.

Can you let me know how long (coupled length) your wagons are please? Thanks Allen

Can you go up to 3m I length because that would be a more suitable size for me?

[Ian Morton]

How about a DCC interface?

Each level could be given an accessory address so that you could choose the road just like setting a point.

[georgehgv]

Dear NGF.

My name is Allen (just call me "Scary"). Before I start, please could I say that this is my first time posting on the forum so I apologise now if I disobey or upset protocol. I've only contributed to one forum before, The Hornby 00 live steam forum, I got barred! Twice!

Anyway, as you know, I've been watching the discussion with interest and I have to say, I am completely overwhelmed with the positive feedback and other observations about the product. I started this development with my own requirements in mind and had no idea if anyone else would be interested in the commercialisation of such an idea. Elevators are nothing new but I believe that the combination of ease of use, good length trains and visible storage combined with space saving and economic viability is a good starting point.

The objectives of attending TINGS and the National in Peterborough are to gauge if there is a demand for the product, if so, what should the spec be? length of trains, number of tracks, multiple level, single lane, double lane, acceptable cost etc.......

With this in mind, I am attending the show with an open mind as to what the final spec should be, hence the vague web content.

Having said that, I would like to answer a few questions that have been raised a few times. (based on the existing prototype)

1. The unit sits in a cut out in the baseboard 1500mm x 120mm. No fixing down is required. I've found gravity to be quite reliable on earth. If I get an order from NASA I will gladly supply additional fasteners.

2. The unit stands 500mm above baseboard level and hangs 600mm below

3. The max train length is 1400mm

4. The vertical alignment is very easy (apologies for the video, you guys don't miss much!) calibration has 2 settings 0.05 fine adjustment and 1mm course adjustment)

5. The show layout has 2 running tail chasers, 1 digital, the other analogue.

6. The show layout has a second level, end to end, DCC line. Turntable, Nelevator, terminus.

7. Cost. This is the big one. This sounds like a cop out but it is down to volume. If I had to make another one like the prototype it would cost about £3k but all the components are one off and many of them CNC machined from billet aluminium. Nice probably not what you want. If I'm wrong, I'll be very please to make you one! To give and example: The handset cost me £285 with some investment I can get that down to £3.60. The top folded aluminium covers with the Totems on cost £120 each. if I order 20 this cost comes down to £21 each. Its all down to volume. The electronics aren't viable at all if I cant order a minimum batch size of 50. Having said that, If the spec stays somewhere near the prototype, I am confident that we can hit somewhere around the £600 mark. this would be for: kit build, 20 lanes, single level, No track included, Nelevator.

8. Timescales. That depends on the show. Maybe nobody wants one. If so I've got a lovely elevator and we call it a day. Hopefully that's not the case and we're full steam ahead onto the next level. (sorry).  That been the case, and I need confidence that we can sell a modest 50 units, we will finalise specifications from your feedback and enter the Design for Manufacture stage to drive cost out but create a robust, beautiful product.

Thank you all again for all your comments. I need the feedback to ensure we arrive with the right product.

I'm looking forward to meeting you all at TINGS.

Cheers

Scary. AKA Allen

p.s The show layout is purely a demonstrable unit to show off the Nelevators functionality (its not even finished) so please try to ignore my limited model making skills.

The answer to my Fiddle Yard prayers! My Order is in. Go Allen.

[Newportnobby]

Given the right length for our own fiddle yards, I wonder how many would seriously commit to £600 (price being bandied about) for a Nelevator
If, for example, Allen was to ask for 50% deposit (like the Pendolino), would there be enough players prepared to do this?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea with huge potential, but I reckon Allen needs some solid evidence of commitment before proceeding too far.

[PostModN66]

Given the right length for our own fiddle yards, I wonder how many would seriously commit to £600 (price being bandied about) for a Nelevator
If, for example, Allen was to ask for 50% deposit (like the Pendolino), would there be enough players prepared to do this?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea with huge potential, but I reckon Allen needs some solid evidence of commitment before proceeding too far.

I would happily pay £600 - the only issue is that I can't retrofit it to my existing layouts (been up with a tape-measure to check), so it would be at the time of designing the next layout.  It would be a bit of a big investment to buy and salt away for several years......

Cheers  Jon