Disalusioned about my locos

[Geoff]

My view is that if you have paid over £100 for something that runs in one direction but is rough in the other then it goes back, if it needs a tweek then fair enough have a small bodge, but that bodge could cause more things to happen to the Loco than what you were looking for.

For me I do not mind soldering wires to install a decoder or fitting a six pin decoder but why should we have to go to the Loco and break it down just to get it running properly, sorry but that has to be the responsibility of a service department, if I bought a Loco and the shop says I will send it to the service department well that is fine in my eyes I will accept that but if it returns and problems persist then its money back time.

This needs to be put into some kind of perspective, and remember the customer is always right.

[austinbob]

My view is that if you have paid over £100 for something that runs in one direction but is rough in the other then it goes back, if it needs a tweek then fair enough have a small bodge, but that bodge could cause more things to happen to the Loco than what you were looking for.

For me I do not mind soldering wires to install a decoder or fitting a six pin decoder but why should we have to go to the Loco and break it down just to get it running properly, sorry but that has to be the responsibility of a service department, if I bought a Loco and the shop says I will send it to the service department well that is fine in my eyes I will accept that but if it returns and problems persist then its money back time.

This needs to be put into some kind of perspective, and remember the customer is always right.

Well thank you Geoff... a glimmer of light and hope!!

[Dr Al]

remember the customer is always right.

In a basic sense and in a legal sense, yes, but if the return is actually due to the purchaser's dodgey track, a dodgey DCC setup, unrealistic expectations e.g. gradient haulage, or whatever, then if they start claiming that designs should be changed on the back of that, then in that instance I'd contend that the customer isn't necessarily right.....

Cheers,
Alan

[guest311]

purely my views on this, but if I buy something I feel it should be fit for purpose.

so if it runs well in one direction and not the other, after running in as per the instructions, I'd be looking to send it back for one that does work.

if, however, it runs fine but doesn't like one of my points, then that probably is not the loco's fault. I'd check back-to-back, bogie swivel etc, but would not consider it reason for return.

I guess we all need to be prepared to do a little fettling, even to a new loco etc, to get it to perform to it's best, some people will be happy with it straight from the box, others will want to 'improve' it in some way.

but the basic point is that it should be fit for purpose out of the box, ie lights work properly, run reasonably in both directions etc.

we are after all dealing with mass produced items, if you want perfect models then I guess you'll need to look elsewhere than Farish, Dapol and Co.

just my feelings.

alan

[Geoff]

remember the customer is always right.

In a basic sense and in a legal sense, yes, but if the return is actually due to the purchaser's dodgey track, a dodgey DCC setup, unrealistic expectations e.g. gradient haulage, or whatever, then if they start claiming that designs should be changed on the back of that, then in that instance I'd contend that the customer isn't necessarily right.....

Cheers,
Alan

Obviously Alan my track is ok yes I have Kato track a big no no to some people but 9 out of 10 of my Loco's run through the points and never had a problem, only one Loco is giving me major issues maybe 2 with one loco doing a wobble and leaving the track but that is with peco track as well, as my Branch line is peco, there was a big shout about 124 points with Kato stating that Loco's derail on the points, I have never had that problem so at the end of the day Kato track is fine, no one else seems to have problems with Kato, and yes I would buy Kato again.

[Bealman]

Class37025:

I have had the same views  throughout the years I have been working in this scale.

Things like motor, pickups, lights etc should work straight out of the box.

If it stalls on points, comes off on curves, etc then it is probably my fault.

However, in reference to your last point,  at the same time if certain manufacturers can get it right, why can't the two major Uk ones? I have known many modellers over the years who have taken up US, Continental or Japanese modelling because of reliability issues.

[DesertHound]

Whilst the hobby to me is fettling with old Poole Farish stock, I'm firmly of the opinion that if you buy an RTR (READY TO RUN) model  brand new then it should do just that - run.

It's fine for those who want to, and have the knowledge / confidence to fettle a new loco but it shouldn't be required / expected by the manufacturers. If it was then the loco would likely come with detailed instructions on how to take it apart, there wouldn't be any hints of invalidating warranties if you tinker with them, and so on.

I think some are confusing the hobby / interest to repair with what these locos are supposed to be - RTR (READY TO RUN). There's absolutely nothing wrong with those who like to fettle, but nobody should feel compelled to have a tinker with a brand new GBP100 plus loco if they're not confident to do so. The new stuff is less tinker friendly than the old stuff so send it back if you're not sure.

Those on here who love tinkering, well ofcourse for them it's not an issue.

Cheers

Dan

[Dr Al]

I have known many modellers over the years who have taken up US, Continental or Japanese modelling because of reliability issues.

I think there are slightly rose tinted spectacles being worn when folk say US/continental is more reliable - it's not universally the case - indeed Bachmann in US were often referred to as Botchmann due to splitting gears and various other issues with them. I've had Fleischmann locos with split gears, others have had motors that become detached. Others have reported problems with hugely expensive recent Minitrix stuff.

So there can be problems in all markets.

Cheers,
Alan

[Dr Al]

but the basic point is that it should be fit for purpose out of the box, ie lights work properly, run reasonably in both directions etc.

I think this is the universal feeling from this thread that we actually all agree on, albeit in slightly different ways.

Cheers,
Alan

[Dr Al]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with those who like to fettle, but nobody should feel compelled to have a tinker with a brand new GBP100 plus loco if they're not confident to do so.

Indeed, however, one has to be pragmatic about what's efficient, and for me quick fixes of minor issues are far more efficient than trooping back to the post office again and again and again. It's an each to their own argument, and nobody is being compelled to do anything.

Sometimes though, the "send it back" shouts do grate however, when it's clear the issue is very minor and could be resolved in minutes with appropriate action, and the modeller in question be a happy chappy/chappette once more!

Cheers,
Alan

[DesertHound]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with those who like to fettle, but nobody should feel compelled to have a tinker with a brand new GBP100 plus loco if they're not confident to do so.

Indeed, however, one has to be pragmatic about what's efficient, and for me quick fixes of minor issues are far more efficient than trooping back to the post office again and again and again. It's an each to their own argument, and nobody is being compelled to do anything.

Sometimes though, the "send it back" shouts do grate however, when it's clear the issue is very minor and could be resolved in minutes with appropriate action, and the modeller in question be a happy chappy/chappette once more!

Cheers,
Alan

Yup - I think that's what my post in it's entirety, rather than just the snippet above, is alluding to.

Cheers

Dan

[DesertHound]

The thing I feel you are overlooking Al is that these models are not built for (or certainly not advertised as such) for people with the knowledge that you or I might have. Indeed, my knowledge of the new stuff is pretty much non-existent and popping off a body would be a voyage of discovery.

You mentioned that you don't wish to have repeat visits to the post office. In your case, I'd agree. However, most people don't have the knowledge you have, some don't want to risk breaking their locos in the name of acquiring that knowledge, and some just want to run trains without knowing about the internal gubbins.

I'm fully supportive of those who want to learn more about how their locos work, but that's a different discussion to buying a brand new product which says it will do xyz, only to get it home to find it doesn't.

If it's second hand or out of warranty then by all means have a tinker, but why risk it with a brand new loco if you are not sure what you are doing and also have the right to exchange it? I tinkered with a faulty, brand new, loco about a year ago, and ended up dropping it in the process. Ok, you can drop a perfectly working loco, but if worked as advertised, it probably wouldn't have got dropped.

As my tag line say; "Have the confidence to look under the bonnet of your locos", but I'd draw the line with brand new stuff now.

Dan

[Newportnobby]

some just want to run trains without knowing about the internal gubbins.

I fall into this category and, if I buy a new loco regardless of whether it's over £100 and there is anything wrong with it, back it goes for replacement. I don't have the time or the interest to faff about. The problem is I order far too much in advance of release in the worry I may miss out whereas I might be better off waiting to see if a second run is better than the first (not that there is always a second run). For once, I am actually doing this with the Dapol Grange as, much though I'd like one the reviews on this forum have not convinced me I won't get a 'lemon'.

[Dr Al]

but why risk it with a brand new loco if you are not sure what you are doing and also have the right to exchange it?

The simple reason is that I'm a modeller, something that seems to be in decline. I will be tinkering with it anyway - detailing, renumbering, adding parts, improving the running (of even perfectly good locos, which I do with everything - it all gets stripped down) with a standard range of techniques - think of it as 'tuning up' if you like. This makes it mine, rather than the same old loco that everybody else has.

Therefore if there's a fix needed that's simple (e.g. pickups needing adjusted) then I won't baulk at it. With modern Farish locos at least there's always an exploded diagram anyway, so it's not a blind process.

Again, this is a pragmatic approach which others are unlikely to follow, as I've said right from the start. Indeed, it's not to say I won't send stuff back - I've had a V2, standard 5MT and 9F all wing their way back to suppliers due to faults.

Of course there are some new locos you do have to tinker with or you will invalidate the warranty - i.e. Dapol's (odd) oiling strategy..... 

I think as you allude to this does stray into a different area of discussion - namely how willing folks are to actually fix faults on locos outwith warranty and do more drastic mechanical surgery in terms of repairs or scratchbuilding (cosmetic surgery there too). In this sense it does dismay me how little willingness there appears to be from 'modellers' to actually do any modelling in this respect - it just seems like those who do are relatively few as compared those that just buy stock items. Different discussion I guess.

Cheers,
Alan

[Yet_Another]

In this sense it does dismay me how little willingness there appears to be from 'modellers' to actually do any modelling in this respect - it just seems like those who do are relatively few as compared those that just buy stock items. Different discussion I guess.

Very much a different discussion. I find a general assumption that if you are interested in/run model trains, then you are a modeller. I don't accept that. I wouldn't call myself a modeller, even though, or rather because, I play with model trains.