Imperial vs Metric

[MalcolmInN]

kilo as 1000 (103);

May I  :
10^3
or you could use E

[Bealman]

I love the word "standard." What's "standard" about a track gauge of four feet eight AND A HALF inches?!

Oh, that's a "standard" 1,435mm, by the way. 

[NeMo]

I agree with most of what you say and I think metric has an advantage over imperial, predominantly because of the "divisible by ten" factor, which is far easier for people's brains to cope with.

Agreed, though arguably the Imperial system using Base-12 is actually better in this regard. Metres don't divide nicely into thirds, for example, but feet do. The "divisible by ten" is, I believe, actually more useful for computers. While I'm sure you could invent a computer that worked in fractions, the reality is that modern computers do floating point calculations presenting their results as decimals with some sort of significant digit approximation. I'm struggling to imagine an easier way to enter (most) numbers than as decimals. About the only exception that springs to mind would be something using Base-60 like degrees or time. But even then, I'd assume the computer then turns your 27 degrees 57 minutes and 12 seconds into some sort of decimal before it does the calculation required.

That said, we are where we are because of history. In my industry (aviation) we predominantly use metric, although feet are used for altitude measurements (except for one or two countries in the world) and if we wanted to move away from nautical miles then we'd have to completely rethink how we measure the earth, since it's inexplicably linked to minutes of latitude.

Totally agree. I've got a computerised telescope that's set up to use the equatorial coordinate system, which uses a bizarre mix of coordinates, right ascension (hours, minutes and seconds) and declination (degrees, arc minutes and arc seconds). Makes total sense given the history of astronomy and how people used to locate objects and compensate for the Earth's rotation, and these coordinates are what you'll find in an astronomy book. But at the same time, the telescope itself isn't polar aligned but uses a simple horizontal (alt-azimuth) mount instead, so the computers turns the RA and Dec values into an entirely different set of movements presumably using decimalised altitude and azimuthal movements. Since computers can make very accurate calculations on the fly, the RA and Dec approach doesn't really serve any practical purpose, even though it remains the standard for human beings reading books or looking on maps.

I'm not saying metric isn't the way forward, but in certain applications we have imperial for a very good reason, normally to do with how a system was built, and changing that system just isn't practical.

Indeed. Fiddling with shapes and sizes that are solidly entrenched is only useful if there's a practical benefit. I honestly couldn't care what sizes are used for plumbing fittings, rifle ammunition or book publishing since those things only really matter to people working in those jobs/professions. It's the reactionary stand sometimes made, that "the metric system" is all about Europe telling British people what to do that gets me cross. It's not. British scientists and engineers compete very well on the world stage, and trying to turn the clock back by teaching British youngsters about feet and pounds instead of metres and kilos will only damage that success.

Cheers, NeMo

I love the word "standard." What's "standard" about a track gauge of four feet eight AND A HALF inches?!

PS. I've been told the Australian broad gauge was implemented specifically to avoid what was, in the 1840s, the "English" standard gauge. Irish settlers in Sydney wanted nothing to do with England, so they deliberately plumped for the Irish gauge* of 5'3" (a nice round 1600 mm, as it happens). By the time the railway networks of Australia were starting to join up, the 1880s, the different gauges started to create real and expensive problems. There are still bits of the network that are broad gauge, but most was gradually converted to standard gauge.

*Ironically, the Irish gauge was enforced by an act of the British Parliament in 1846.

[MalcolmInN]

Oh yes, another example :

being familiar with degrees F and degrees C ( I resist temptation to include degrees Réaumur lol ) who has not had their head bitten off for using
degrees Kelvin
and told "   degrees     Kelvin " by the fashxxx thought police ?

[Bealman]

We'd better not bring in the Queenslanders and Kiwis, then! 

[NeMo]

Oh yes, another example :
being familiar with degrees F and degrees C ( I resist temptation to include degrees Réaumur lol ) who has not had their head bitten off for using
degrees Kelvin
and told "   degrees     Kelvin " by the fashxxx thought police ?

Ah, but the great benefit of Kelvin is you don't need to figure out where the degree symbol is on your keyboard... though oddly enough on a Mac it's option-K, presumably because K is for Kelvin, which is totally paradoxical for the precise reason you give above! It's easy to remember though, which is nice.

Cheers, NeMo

[MalcolmInN]

While I'm sure you could invent a computer that worked in fractions,

Dont tempt me 
and watch out for the newfangled quantum computers that use entangled states, I'm not jesting ! ( not to mention boxed cats, now I am )

the reality is that modern computers do floating point calculations presenting their results as decimals

do FP with binary and presenting in whatever format one wants/specified.

bizarre mix of coordinates, right ascension (hours, minutes and seconds) and declination (degrees, arc minutes and arc seconds).

He's right ! it is bizarre, and the really bizzare thing is that I had not thought it so till you said !! 

using decimalised altitude and azimuthal movements.

using fiendish spherical trig , you dont want to go there, I had to do it with pen and paper (sans computers) and hour-angles and sidereal time and,, ohhh my head Hertz just remembering !

It's the reactionary stand sometimes made, that "the metric system" is all about Europe telling British people what to do that gets me cross. It's not. British scientists and engineers compete very well on the world stage, and trying to turn the clock back by teaching British youngsters about feet and pounds instead of metres and kilos will only damage that success.

He's right y'know

[Bealman]

A favourite of mine is the Gray. But being a retired physics teacher, I'm quite used to metric. Distances in Oz are measured in Km too. 

The SI unit Gray is simple - 1 Joule of radiation for every 1 Kilogram of matter.

[D1042 Western Princess]

Look folks, I just want to talk about railway modelling - it's what this site is about.
Thanks.

[MalcolmInN]

Ah, but the great benefit of Kelvin is you don't need to figure out where the degree symbol is on your keyboard..

 
He's not wrong !
like it !!

[NeMo]

A favourite of mine is the Gray. But being a retired physics teacher, I'm quite used to metric.

My O-level physics teacher was a chap called Mr Channing, and he used to tell us all sorts of stories that, in hindsight, might not have been 100% accurate. But one I always liked was how Fahrenheit determined his scale as 0 for when the Baltic froze over and 100 for the blood coming from a freshly killed pig.

I believe the later definitions are slightly different (freezing point of brine vs. human body temperature at 96) but Mr Channing's story has stuck with me for 30-odd years!

Cheers, NeMo

[NeMo]

Look folks, I just want to talk about railway modelling - it's what this site is about.
Thanks.

Well that bird has well and truly flown. Horse bolted. Worms have now travelled a great distance from the can you chose to open... 

Cheers, NeMo

[MalcolmInN]

Look folks, I just want to talk about railway modelling - it's what this site is about.
Thanks.

oh ho
which bit of , ,

"General Discussion
Talk about anything here! Other gauges, hobbies, the weather..."

I think that was why Caz moved it ?

[Sprintex]

Look folks, I just want to talk about railway modelling - it's what this site is about.
Thanks.

Well that bird has well and truly flown. Horse bolted. Worms have now travelled a great distance from the can you chose to open... 

Cheers, NeMo

Well said!

Hijack someone else's thread that WAS about model railways for your own political rant, then complain that it's off topic?


Paul

[Agrippa]

My O-level physics teacher was a chap called Mr Channing,

Cheers, NeMo
[/quote]

My O level languages teacher Mr Milton met Hitler when he was a student in Jairmany,
(Milton that is ), beats brine and pig's blood wouldn't you say..........