A bit of a conundrum

Graham Walters · August 20, 2016, 09:43:38 PM

**Move this if it's in the wrong place**

Had a customer come into the shop today with a request for us to build him layout, not so strange, but he has already bought £500 worth of track.

The layout is to go in an 8 x 6 room, and he wants a "U" shape with a roundy and fiddle yard to fiddle yard, plus an incline with a BLT somewhere on the layout.

He wants us to build the baseboards, lay the track, wiring for DCC etc, and 90% of the scenics.

His budget is around £1200 including labour!

My business partner and I don't think it's possible to produce what he wants for that kind of money, we sat and discussed it a little and can't really decide if this is genuine, or if it's someone trying it on, with us being a "new" business, and thinking we would take it on.

Personally I think we would be better off assisting him in an advisory role, showing him how to lay track etc, and letting him get on with, being modellers we are finding it hard to understand what pleasure there is in watching someone build a layout for you.

Has anyone bought a ready made layout, and how much did it cost ?

Ian Morton · August 20, 2016, 10:00:00 PM

Been there and got the t-shirt.

People don't realise the amount of time building even a simple layout will take and certainly won't value that at a commercial rate.

I doubt that 1200 will cover the materials let alone any labour.

Give it a good leaving alone.

silly moo · August 21, 2016, 05:47:49 AM

There are companies that custom build baseboards so you (or he) could get a quote from them which would give a starting point.

If he knows exactly what he wants and has drawn up a proper track plan, quoting will be easier, if he doesn't and is likely to change his mind a lot he could drive you round the bend and lose you lots of money.

Graham Walters · August 21, 2016, 10:02:06 AM

Quote from: Only Me on August 20, 2016, 10:32:31 PM
We dont see eye to eye on everything Graham but in this case I totally agree that £1200 wouldnt cover a DCC layout of that size. I know a chap who is excellent and is building a DCC layout for a customer, he charges him £20 an hour and builds it onsite at his location..

Regards Paul

Thanks Paul.

We reckoned on £30 an hour for the two of us, and in that scenario laying the track would eat into the whole of his budget, he also wants us to design the layout, as others have said it's a minefield and we don't have a reliable enough detector.

njee20 · August 21, 2016, 10:08:06 AM

Safe to say that people will always underestimate the value of time in an endeavour like this. Easy to be dismissive, 'it's just a model train set'.

Gentle reminder though Graham - he's a (well) paying customer, you're calling him a "poser" online for all the world to see. Would the thread not have been better called "what value on our time?" Or similar. If I were the customer i'd be pretty appalled.

javlinfaw7 · August 21, 2016, 10:12:36 AM

I don't think poser refers to the customer ,rather to the question.

njee20 · August 21, 2016, 10:19:59 AM

Ah right, not how I interpreted it, and not how others might.

Sprintex · August 21, 2016, 10:20:51 AM

Quote from: javlinfaw7 on August 21, 2016, 10:12:36 AM
I don't think poser refers to the customer ,rather to the question.

Precisely

Paul

Milton Rail · August 21, 2016, 10:29:11 AM

My initial reaction upon reading the title & the 1st couple of lines of text was that you were referring to the customer! Once I understood it, I realised you meant that it was a bit of a poser of a situation.

Cheers,
Andrew

njee20 · August 21, 2016, 10:38:10 AM

Quote from: Sprintex on August 21, 2016, 10:20:51 AM
Quote from: javlinfaw7 on August 21, 2016, 10:12:36 AM
I don't think poser refers to the customer ,rather to the question.

Precisely

Again, this is down to interpretation. Were I Graham I'd avoid that ambiguity. Not least as I've never in my life heard the term "a poser" when referring to a question, YMMV. If the customer were to come on here he may well understand fully. But he may not. Merely trying to help Graham a little.

austinbob · August 21, 2016, 10:43:36 AM

Quote from: njee20 on August 21, 2016, 10:38:10 AM
Quote from: Sprintex on August 21, 2016, 10:20:51 AM
Quote from: javlinfaw7 on August 21, 2016, 10:12:36 AM
I don't think poser refers to the customer ,rather to the question.

Precisely

Again, this is down to interpretation. Were I Graham I'd avoid that ambiguity. Not least as I've never in my life heard the term "a poser" when referring to a question, YMMV. If the customer were to come on here he may well understand fully. But he may not. Merely trying to help Graham a little.

Time to stop digging that hole and move on I think...

Graham Walters · August 21, 2016, 11:18:21 AM

Title changed to avoid ambiguity

austinbob · August 21, 2016, 11:19:39 AM

Quote from: Graham Walters on August 21, 2016, 11:18:21 AM
Title changed to avoid ambiguity

njee20 · August 21, 2016, 11:29:10 AM

A good call Graham, done in all innocence I don't doubt!

Chris Morris · August 21, 2016, 02:19:29 PM

It's funny how language changes over the years. Probably because I am in my 60s I didn't see anything other than the intended meaning in the header.
There are a number of problems with the proposition. Firstly how do you define the quality requirements so the parties know what to expect and what is expected of them. Secondly what is a complete layout. Adding lots of tiny details can be very time consuming. Thirdly I would agree that the only way to build a project like this is on a cost per hour basis. It would be pretty much impossible to accurately estimate the hours required to build a complete layout. Even the planning could use many hours of work just to get a workable plan the suits the customer. If conversations about the plan and re-jigs are costing whatever per hour it will concentrate the mind and reduce the planning time.