A British domestic train from Kato? 800 series available from May 2021

[Snowwolflair]

Hello all,

Great news!  I had heard that the Hornby licence expires next year, which presumably is how Kato have managed to negotiate this, with the very clear launch date of 2021.

The issue around scale is a tough one.  My understanding is that in Japan the Shinkansen trains (standard gauge) are modelled to 1:160 which is the correct scale/gauge combination, while the commuter trains (3'6 gauge?) are modelled to 1:150 which is close to correct. 

rom my brief but interesting discussions with Mr Kato at Warley last year I got the sense that he cannot understand why anyone would want a model that is not the correct scale/Gauge combination, and would need some convincing to put out an "incorrect" Kato model.

I suspect the Class 800 will be to 1:160, but of course he will be attending TINGS so maybe this is a good chance to lobby him?

The most common gauge is the 3'6" (1067mm) Cape Gauge, which in N scale would be about 7mm, which means the majority of Kato N scale stock is running on a very unprototypical broad gauge.

(FWIW there is a small "Nj" scene dedicated to the correct gauge for Japanese N scale, see .g.. http://vivant.jp/nj-hatena.htm).

If Kato are basing this on existing tooling for Japanese models, I'd expect it to be 1:150.

Historically the Kato "European High Speed Trains Series" they produced for the European market were designed in Europe by a third party (name escapes me) so  TGV, Eurostar etc. and were therefore scaled for their target market at 1:160.

If the model is designed in Japan, as all their other Japanese outline models are, it will almost certainly be 1:150, and as Railsquid indicates the 800 is an evolution of some of their existing models so wont be a gigantic leap for their Japanese design team.

I really like the idea of the 800 and I hope the liveries include the GWR. (As the Virgin Azuma may no longer exist in 2021)

[gc4946]

And also the class 802s built or currently being built for GWR, Transpennine, and Hull Trains.

I'd be interested in a Transpennine version 

[gc4946]

I should say the individual class 800 carriages are 26m long which works out in 1:148 as 175.67 mm.
A nine-car unit would be 1581 mm long ...
then you'll need to allow room for couplings, allowing for that my guess the complete formation would approach 1630 mm.
It would be longer than my Revolution Trains' 9-car Pendolino!

A 9-car unit isn't feasible with my current setup but a 5-car version would suit me fine.
A 1:148 5-car 800 or 802 unit would roughly be the same length as a 2+5 HST which I also own.

[NGS-PO]

A little OT, but not entirely.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/146262-katopeco-announce-fr-locos-in-009-confirmed/

Presumably with Peco involved, this will be to 1/76?

Best

Scott

[RailGooner]

A little OT, but not entirely.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/146262-katopeco-announce-fr-locos-in-009-confirmed/

Presumably with Peco involved, this will be to 1/76?

Very relevant I'd say. It adds weight to the argument that Kato are keen to produce product appealing to the British modeller and thus that the 800 will be produced to British Outline N Gauge.

[railsquid]

A little OT, but not entirely.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/146262-katopeco-announce-fr-locos-in-009-confirmed/

Presumably with Peco involved, this will be to 1/76?

Very relevant I'd say. It adds weight to the argument that Kato are keen to produce product appealing to the British modeller and thus that the 800 will be produced to British Outline N Gauge.

Interesting - there has been a large display of Peco track and accessories in the Kato HQ shop in Tokyo since earlier this year.

[Invicta Alec]

Yep, put me down for an 800. 

Love my Kato track and keen to see if Kato locos are as reliable and robust as everyone says they are!

While you're at it Mr. Kato, I don't suppose you'd like to turn out a 4VEP, a Thumper or a 170 with working lights? 

Alec.

[railsquid]

Love my Kato track and keen to see if Kato locos are as reliable and robust as everyone says they are!

I have a large number ranging from brand new to over 30 years old and they are pretty consistent in their reliability, and easy to maintain. My main gripe is the lack of a standard coupling socket, I keep buying second hand ones for not very much money and realising there's a coupling or two missing or swapped for something I can't use, then finding out the coupling is a part specific to the loco in question, so I now have a drawer with dozens of different Kato coupling types...

[railsquid]

A little OT, but not entirely.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/146262-katopeco-announce-fr-locos-in-009-confirmed/

Presumably with Peco involved, this will be to 1/76?

Very relevant I'd say. It adds weight to the argument that Kato are keen to produce product appealing to the British modeller and thus that the 800 will be produced to British Outline N Gauge.

Interesting - there has been a large display of Peco track and accessories in the Kato HQ shop in Tokyo since earlier this year.

This one:


Kato Hobby Centre Tokyo - Peco accessories by Rail Squid, on Flickr

[RailGooner]

..
Interesting - there has been a large display of Peco track and accessories in the Kato HQ shop in Tokyo since earlier this year.

This one:


Kato Hobby Centre Tokyo - Peco accessories by Rail Squid, on Flickr

Very good of you to pop round there and quickly snap that for us Squidy!

[railsquid]

..
Interesting - there has been a large display of Peco track and accessories in the Kato HQ shop in Tokyo since earlier this year.

This one:


Kato Hobby Centre Tokyo - Peco accessories by Rail Squid, on Flickr

Very good of you to pop round there and quickly snap that for us Squidy!

Funnily enough I used to live just down the road from there, though didn't realise it at the time. Photo is from April, but by pure freaky coincidence I actually went there today to get some spare parts unavailable elsewhere. I hadn't seen the announcement at that point, but apart from the continuing presence of the display I didn't notice anything related to the announcement.

[Railwaygun]

[jpendle]

I can't see why Kato would release this in anything other then 1:148. To date they haven't done a (uniquely) UK prototype model.
It would be commercial suicide to enter the British N Gauge market with a 1:160 scale version.
Perhaps the N Gauge Society should send him a polite letter, or even arrange to meet him in private at TINGS?

Regards,

John P

[njee20]

Totally agree, it would be lunacy. Even more so if it was done because Kato thought we were all wrong (I know we are, but still...), as opposed to some excuse about it having interest among a Japanese audience or something. It was show a staggering misunderstanding of their market, which would surprise me.

[railsquid]

Umm, Japanese N scale is fundamentally 1:150, with the exception of Shinkansens, which are 1:160.

Kato also produce 1:160 items for the North American and European mainland markets.

The Class 800 is however based on a Japanese train which is not a Shinkansen, and which is available from Kato in 1:150.

The question is whether Kato will be adapting that tooling, meaning the Class 800 will be 1:150, or going to the expense of entirely new 1:148 tooling (which I suspect is unlikely due to the relatively small size of the British N gauge market).