Show your Latest GB Loco and Rolling Stock Purchase.

[Newportnobby]

They do an LMS version and it's at dealers now. Looks like purely sound fitted, though.........

https://www.bachmann.co.uk/product/category/160/mr-3835-4f-with-fowler-tender-4057-lms-black-%28mr-numerals%29/372-063sf

The non-sound version arrived a couple of months ago or thereabouts, it is already out of stock at Bachmann HQ and a fair few retailers. Not a surprise given the lack of steam available over the last five or so years especially from Farish.

Roy

Hells teeth! Looking at the price I can only assume they mastered real steam!

Bear in mind that's Bachmann's full RRP and most retailers will have 15% off that price.
Still a lot for sound that's never in synch with what the loco is doing, though.

[emjaybee]

They do an LMS version and it's at dealers now. Looks like purely sound fitted, though.........

https://www.bachmann.co.uk/product/category/160/mr-3835-4f-with-fowler-tender-4057-lms-black-%28mr-numerals%29/372-063sf

The non-sound version arrived a couple of months ago or thereabouts, it is already out of stock at Bachmann HQ and a fair few retailers. Not a surprise given the lack of steam available over the last five or so years especially from Farish.

Roy

Hells teeth! Looking at the price I can only assume they mastered real steam!

Bear in mind that's Bachmann's full RRP and most retailers will have 15% off that price.
Still a lot for sound that's never in synch with what the loco is doing, though.

I've got one sound loco. An 8F which I bought sound for separately. I did manage to synchronise the 'chuffs' with the wheel revolutions quite easily. It's a novelty thing really in my opinion. It gets somewhat annoying after about 10 minutes and you turn it off.

[Roy L S]

Bear in mind that's Bachmann's full RRP and most retailers will have 15% off that price.
Still a lot for sound that's never in synch with what the loco is doing, though.

I respectfully disagree with that, the loco exhausts four times per wheel revolution which is correct (cylinders are double acting), the cylinders are internal on the 4F so how could you tell the sounds are out of sync in any other respect anyway? With the "active brake" you can cut power to zero and the loco will coast - no exhaust sound just rods clanking, you can retard the speed, exhaust drops and it will slow with just rod noise, open up the throttle by increasing the speed and the loco "barks" until constant speed is reached then sound recedes, the same is true when the loco starts from a stand. Press "F2" to apply the brakes and they squeal, you can "pop" safety valves at the press of a function button, another gives the sound of fireman shovelling.

If you consider what a comprehensive suite of sounds you get and that a Zimo sound chip alone is over £120 retail then the price I paid (£225.20 with free postage) begins to look very good value indeed for what is not just a lovely model but an incredibly useful and versatile loco.

Regards

Roy[

[Newportnobby]

My comment was a generalisation, Roy, not specific to the 4F. Maybe they have it right with that model but all the steam with sound I've seen at shows are just awful. Diesels sound OK until the horn is sounded.
I'm no fan of sound and never will be

[Trainfish]

My personal opinion on sound is that if it's done well then it's ok on just 1 loco at a time. If I had sound with up to 7 trains running at the same time it would just sound like a cockof cocophn ckeoff load of noise just as I've heard at exhibitions.

[Roy L S]

My comment was a generalisation, Roy, not specific to the 4F. Maybe they have it right with that model but all the steam with sound I've seen at shows are just awful. Diesels sound OK until the horn is sounded.
I'm no fan of sound and never will be

Fair enough if sound isn't for you, but clearly plenty like it or Bachmann (and others) wouldn't be doing it and selling them very successfully. However your comment "Still a lot for sound that's never in synch with what the loco is doing, though" appeared specific to this loco hence my response.

For balance I would add that as with all things there have been one or two sound files I haven't been happy with, and I have also had to tweak one or two to get exhaust beats correct in relation to wheel revolutions. The 8F wasn't one of them though, the Farish sound-file captured perfectly the "busy" sound of a relatively small-wheeled freight loco's exhaust which would be apparent even at fairly modest speeds.

Edit, and generally sound is getting better and better, the advent of "active braking" adds a whole new dynamic to "driving" the loco and the sound-responses that result.

Regards

Roy

[Hailstone]

Bear in mind that's Bachmann's full RRP and most retailers will have 15% off that price.
Still a lot for sound that's never in synch with what the loco is doing, though.

I respectfully disagree with that, the loco exhausts four times per wheel revolution which is correct (cylinders are double acting), the cylinders are internal on the 4F so how could you tell the sounds are out of sync in any other respect anyway? With the "active brake" you can cut power to zero and the loco will coast - no exhaust sound just rods clanking, you can retard the speed, exhaust drops and it will slow with just rod noise, open up the throttle by increasing the speed and the loco "barks" until constant speed is reached then sound recedes, the same is true when the loco starts from a stand. Press "F2" to apply the brakes and they squeal, you can "pop" safety valves at the press of a function button, another gives the sound of fireman shovelling.

If you consider what a comprehensive suite of sounds you get and that a Zimo sound chip alone is over £120 retail then the price I paid (£225.20 with free postage) begins to look very good value indeed for what is not just a lovely model but an incredibly useful and versatile loco.

Regards

Roy[

I have answered this question elsewhere once before, but to recap, 2 cylinder and four cylinder locomotives emit 4 beats to the revolutuion with the exception of all but one of the Lord Nelson class which were set to 8 per rev. 3 cylinder locomotives emit 6 beats per rev which are evenly spaced with the exception of Bullied pacifics due to the uneven setting of the cranks.
Even if the cylinders on a loco are between the frames, a 2 cylinder loco will have 4 "beats" per revolution, co inciding with the position of the outside cranks in top dead centre, front dead centre, bottom dead centre and back dead centre. for those of us who have worked on the real thing, this is instantly noticable when "out of sync" on a sound fitted model, and for me personally as irritating as squeaky chalk on a blackboard.

Regards,

Alex

[Moria]

I have answered this question elsewhere once before, but to recap, 2 cylinder and four cylinder locomotives emit 4 beats to the revolutuion with the exception of all but one of the Lord Nelson class which were set to 8 per rev. 3 cylinder locomotives emit 6 beats per rev which are evenly spaced with the exception of Bullied pacifics due to the uneven setting of the cranks.
Even if the cylinders on a loco are between the frames, a 2 cylinder loco will have 4 "beats" per revolution, co inciding with the position of the outside cranks in top dead centre, front dead centre, bottom dead centre and back dead centre. for those of us who have worked on the real thing, this is instantly noticable when "out of sync" on a sound fitted model, and for me personally as irritating as squeaky chalk on a blackboard.

Regards,

Alex

Thank you for that, I've been trying to balance some locos for sound recently and this helps .   I believe that we are still in the early days of sound, and in the same way (as since the 70's when I started collecting) locos have improved hand over fist, then additional items such as sound will as well, although I believe the advances will be quicker, because things like sound files can be changed on the fly, rather than new models being required

As with everything else, some will like it, some will hate it..  same as DC v DCC and similar changes to the way we play trains, or have moving vehicles, or animated objects, or background soundscapes, or any other feature.

Again , as with all things, it needs to be balanced..  merging loco sounds with each other and additional sounds on the layout needs to take place sympathetically so that it is not overwhelming, and for some people, too much sound is actually distracting or even disturbing.

I remember years ago, before sound locos, exhibiting next to a layout that was set on the coast and had a permanently playing soundscape of waves and beach noise and seagulls on it...  the owner came in on the sunday to find a curled up cheese sarny sitting on the layout with a sign on it saying.. food for the seagulls to shut them up.  (not from me I hasten to add, however, I was amused for the whole day by it..  I'm easily amused though )

As we progress, more and more things will start to enter, what I call the panolpy of incidentals to allow those that want to, to become more fully immersed, but fundamentally..  it's what floats your boat as an individual that makes this hobby so much fun, and everyone is different in that regard

Graham

[Roy L S]

The Gresley 3 cylinder locos also had an uneven exhaust beat which I as understand it was due to the conjugated valve-gear (the outside valve-gear also operated the single inside cylinder's valves via rods rather than it having it's own). This became especially noticeable if there was wear in the bearings of said rods.

Roy

[Newportnobby]

I remember years ago, before sound locos, exhibiting next to a layout that was set on the coast and had a permanently playing soundscape of waves and beach noise and seagulls on it...  the owner came in on the sunday to find a curled up cheese sarny sitting on the layout with a sign on it saying.. food for the seagulls to shut them up.  (not from me I hasten to add, however, I was amused for the whole day by it..  I'm easily amused though )

I must admit I hope they have all that stuff turned off on 'Grange-over-Sands' at the York NGS show.

[Roy L S]

I have answered this question elsewhere once before, but to recap, 2 cylinder and four cylinder locomotives emit 4 beats to the revolutuion with the exception of all but one of the Lord Nelson class which were set to 8 per rev. 3 cylinder locomotives emit 6 beats per rev which are evenly spaced with the exception of Bullied pacifics due to the uneven setting of the cranks.
Even if the cylinders on a loco are between the frames, a 2 cylinder loco will have 4 "beats" per revolution, co inciding with the position of the outside cranks in top dead centre, front dead centre, bottom dead centre and back dead centre. for those of us who have worked on the real thing, this is instantly noticable when "out of sync" on a sound fitted model, and for me personally as irritating as squeaky chalk on a blackboard.

Regards,

Alex

Carefully observing the new 4F at a crawl does indeed confirm that the four exhaust beats align with those four quarter-rotations of the driving wheels. I have tried one of my factory sound 8Fs too, that is a smidge out at a crawl but not by much and once on the move at any speed above that you simply cannot see it. The other things I have mentioned hold good with this model, you shut or recede the power and the exhaust stops, you can hear the rods clank as it coasts increase power the loco exhaust "barks" etc....

I guess it is inevitable that anyone who spends time with the real thing will both notice and be more critical of any shortcomings a model has, be it with DCC sound, detail or anything else for that matter. However when the model is 148 times smaller than the real thing there will inevitably need to be compromises.

For example if one wishes to have sound in a tender-driven model it will be that much more difficult to synchronise the driving wheel positions to the exhaust beats of a loco than with a loco-drive as the prototypical driving wheels are, erm, undriven. So it then becomes more a a matter of of what is acceptable and that varies person-to-person. I have two sound fitted Farish J39s, and as no J39 or J38 (which was pretty much the same but with smaller driving wheels) survived into preservation I had to choose a sound-file that is hopefully a close match. I selected the J27 which has a similar general layout, two internal cylinders, Stephenson's valve-gear short exhaust and large boiler. I noted during my search for info that the design of the J38 (which came before the J39) was described as a "J27 modified" so hopefully my choice has some credence even if the J38 was in practice a completely new design! Now this approach would probably not suit the purist, but I accept the compromise.

Another thing is that sound files can vary in quality, and in fact I was on option 3 before I found a Class 37 I was happy with.

At the end of it all as others have said, as with so many things in railway modelling DCC sound is a matter of personal choice, some like it and some do not - that's fair enough. However what really gets my goat is when someone makes sweeping generalisations and presents opinion as fact without necessarily having even heard the models in question first hand.

Roy

[Toothman]

Went to the hereford model shop today and got Kingston Grange new it's been in the shop all these years the guy was telling me other Grange names they have ,not second hand but new its old stock

[Skyline2uk]

Long time since I have posted on this thread (through being forgetful, not through lack of loco indulgence).

Birthday loco 60006 stretching it's legs on the BMRG T-Track layout:



Skyline2uk

[joe cassidy]

Is that Tamworth station in the background ?

[Skyline2uk]

Is that Tamworth station in the background ?

That is another layout at the club by that name.

Skyline2uk