What fuel for my next car?

[emjaybee]

Yep, but it's a Golf R, so it's 4WD, and has 300bhp! Use of "race" mode will happily see you into the low 20s, no use whatsoever on public roads, mind!

Ah.

Self-inflicted then.

[Webbo]

I had a Toyota Celica for 15 years and loved it. The only reason I got rid of it was because the upholstery degraded so badly in the Aussie UV, that I had to drive it standing up

A subsequent Mitsubishi Magna was total crap, so a return to a little Toyota Corolla was deemed to be the right path.

Best car I've ever had.

So the answer to Mark's question is, yes.

Quite so, George with your Magna. It must have been a Monday or Friday manufacture. I'm still running my 1997 Magna which has now clocked up 385,000 km and is still going strong. On its third clutch mind you, and several brake servicings, cooling system hose replacements, new batteries etc. mind you, but it has been the toughest and most reliable car I have ever owned.

From my Magna I jumped into a Tesla two years ago. I know with Elon Musk's latest antics, Tesla may not be be everyone'e favourite car, but I find it is a fabulous car. Powerful, smooth, and quiet and at 25,000 km it is about 2/3 of the way through its first set of tyres. Michael (@emjaybee post #14) your client must have bought very poor tyres or likes to burn rubber if he can only get 7 1/2 ks out of a tyre set.

Where EVs really come into their own is when one can charge at home and where one doesn't have to drive great distances in outback Australia where charging stations are few and far between (which is the vast majority of us motorists).

As for non plug-in hybrids, all of the energy they use is ultimately derived from petrol so basically they are petrol driven cars. To be sure, their energy management systems can make them more efficient than purely petrol equivalents.

Webbo

[JulianO]

I guess we all like to justify our choice of car!
Mine is a 2019 AWD Honda CRV 1.5 L turbo, which has returned 7.4 to 7.5 L per 100 km over its life so far, which is around 38 mpg.
It also runs on 91 Octane.
There is a new generation out, but the cheaper versions of it on sale here in NZ have a similar engine, as do current Civics.
Turbocharging is yet another approach to using less petrol as opposed to hybrids, and I think the figures for the CRV are really impressive as this is quite a large vehicle, despite being a "Medium" SUV.
With the current model you have to pay NZ$ 10000 more to get the hybrid version, and I feel you would need to do a lot of km to save this much on fuel.
Both turbos and hybrid systems do add complexity, and potential maintenance costs down the track; which is better??

[njee20]

It's hard to buy a naturally aspirated car these days, virtually everything with an ICE is turbocharged. I think putting turbos and hybrids in the same category of increasing efficiency is a bit disingenuous. 

[GlenEglise]

I will NEVER buy an EV.

This is the wrong technology for the future.

Currently I have access to a 636cc Honda Vamos (very efficient) , a Skoda Fabia Monte Carlo (very efficient) and only £20 Tax.
My pride and joy is a Passat Estate 2009 Estate R36. Rubbish MPG but what a joy to drive.

GE

[PaulCheffus]

I will NEVER buy an EV.

This is the wrong technology for the future.

Currently I have access to a 636cc Honda Vamos (very efficient) , a Skoda Fabia Monte Carlo (very efficient) and only £20 Tax.
My pride and joy is a Passat Estate 2009 Estate R36. Rubbish MPG but what a joy to drive.

GE

Hi

Neither will I until I'm forced to. Have you seen the new VED from 1/04/2025? Most EVs will pay the same as my petrol car from that date £195 a year. They will also be subject to the expensive car supplement (over 40k purchase price).

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vehicle-tax-for-electric-and-low-emissions-vehicles

Cheers

Paul

[njee20]

Well only if they're over £40k (which most are I realise).

It does feel somewhat like the EV bubble is strained, if not burst. Sales are tapering off, incentives drying up, they're being taxed more heavily, insurance is usually higher (and is rising), there's various scaremongering stories about bans from multi storey car parks and what not.

I'd happily have one, we're the ideal household for one, but it has to make financial sense. 

[Newportnobby]

I will NEVER buy an EV.
This is the wrong technology for the future.

At last. Someone who thinks like me.
Typical of this country to plough ahead with 'going green' without having the basics right in the first place. Never mind cost - there's also weight issues, infrastructure (or lack of), danger and alienating anyone living above ground floor in flats, for example. 19th storey extension lead, anyone??
I'll be one of those buying a last minute petrol car by which time petrol pumps will be as rare as charging points are now, and the fuel will be about £10 per litre in an attempt to force me down the EV route, which ain't gonna happen.
In September this year I did a mini road trip to Scotland, driving 996 miles in 4 days. That would have been impossible in an EV

[ntpntpntp]

EVs don't interest me at all I'm afraid, I'm just too fond of my reliable diesel SUV which is perfect for long round-trips fully loaded with my layout for an exhibition or a drum kit and other music gear for a gig.   

The rest of the time I can always borrow SWMBO's frugal Citroen,  but the funny thing is since lockdown and changing to working from home I probably only use a car 4-5 times a month.

[geoffc]

I will NEVER buy an EV.
This is the wrong technology for the future.

At last. Someone who thinks like me.
Typical of this country to plough ahead with 'going green' without having the basics right in the first place. Never mind cost - there's also weight issues, infrastructure (or lack of), danger and alienating anyone living above ground floor in flats, for example. 19th storey extension lead, anyone??
I'll be one of those buying a last minute petrol car by which time petrol pumps will be as rare as charging points are now, and the fuel will be about £10 per litre in an attempt to force me down the EV route, which ain't gonna happen.
In September this year I did a mini road trip to Scotland, driving 996 miles in 4 days. That would have been impossible in an EV

I own a 2005 Mondeo 2.2 TDCI bought new as Gordon Brown said diesels were better for the enviroment and diesel would be 10p cheaper a litre than petrol. We know what happend next.
Electric cars are not enviromentally friendly as there is no form of power generation that does not have to a greater or lesser degree a carbon footprint.
With all new houses being all electric I have doubts that the National Grid will be fit for purpose.
Electric cars weigh more due to the batteries, in the case of the new Rolls Royce 1000kg more than a Silver Shadow. The new model requires stronger metal and stronger tyres to take the weight thus a higher carbon footprint in manufacture.
What concerns me is the battery.
Figures have been quoted by various sources of a replacement cost of £10K upwards, how will this reflect on the resale value of a 7 year old car out of warranty. If a claim is made under warranty when the car is five years old will the manufacturers pay the full cost or like insurance companies add a betterment fee i.e., you have had five years life out of the battery so we will only pay for the remaining 2 years so the owner ends up paying 5/7ths of the cost of the battery.
There are reports on You Tube of brand new vehicles being written off due to underfloor damage requiring a battery replacement which exceeds the purchase price of the vehicle.
I dread to think what would happen if somebody was foolish enough and they are about to drive an electric car through flood water especially the models with 600v battery packs.
Charging is another problem, if you can not charge at home it becomes expensive, also bear in mind the charging rate is determined by the cars computer not the charging post.
If the car takes 20 minutes to charge and you are last in a queue of 6 each taking 20 minutes to recharge you will be sat there for 2 hours until you are charged.
When I am in a filling station the longest I have queued is 30 minutes and with a near empty tank I can put a range of nearly 600 miles in my tank in less than 3 minutes using pay ay pump and all I need is a Credit Card no Apps needed.
If you run out of charge on the road then an expensive recovery is involved, you can not top up the battery at the side of the road that easily.
Finally my car with an empty tank weighs less than with a full one, with an all electric car it weighs the same with a flat battery or a full charged one.

Geoff

[Firstone18]

With reference to the increased weight of EVs, I have a friend who has an EV, and it let him down requiring a recovery truck to transport it to the nearest repair provider. He called his breakdown service, told them all the details including the vehicle he was driving. After around an hour a recovery truck turned up, the driver took one look at the car and said 'I cannot take it, it is too heavy'  Turns out his driving licence was not appropriate as the combined weight of the truck and heavy EV was over the limit on his licence. Another recovery truck was requested by the first driver who clearly stated the problem to his control room. After another half hour or so, my friend received a call from the control room; the only driver with the right licence was out on another call and would be at least another two hours before he would get to my friend. Eventually after around five hours my friend's car was recovered. Following this experience and the very costly repair, he now drives a petrol only car.
I am pleased to see others are thinking about the infrastructure problems and the blinkered approach of politicians to this when forcing us to have pure EVs; I cannot remember any TV article delving into this aspect and really telling the full story of the environmental costs of the full life cycle impact of EVs compared to an equivalent petrol powered vehicle.
I remain to be convinced, rather than forced to own an EV.
Cheers!

[thebrighton]

I have a Skoda Citigo which returns just over 60mpg. I did look at the full electric version when it was launched as it was about the only EV even vaguely in my price range. It was a complete non starter: every week I have to drive to my father in laws. The advertised range was a fraction over 120 miles so a dozen or so miles short of the return trip.

Charging at home would not be a problem but here is no way it could be topped up at its destination and due to where he lives the only current service station between us where I could charge is only 3 miles away from here so unless I took a big diversion and was happy to sit around for an hour I'd never make it there and back. I would also never find myself better off.

I know there are EV's with bigger ranges but they come at a subsidised premium which I will never be able to afford. The technology and infrastructure just isn't there yet and I doubt it will be by the governments deadline arrives.

Just pop into our town centre; it is made up of hundreds of large Victorian houses converted to flats with no parking nearby. Just how is anyone supposed to charge their car other than queuing for hours at a service station?

[stevewalker]

One thing to also consider when thinking of buying EV is tyre wear.

...

the first set of tyres lasted 5½k miles! With careful driving he managed to stretch the next set to 7½km miles.

What're they doing? It sounds like something is wrong with the tracking. Our MG4 is still on its original tyres after more than 15,000 miles and they look like they'll last a while yet. Some of that is trundling around, but some is also somewhat "spirited" driving.

My old Zafira only used to get around 20,000 miles, so wear seems pretty much the same.

[emjaybee]

One thing to also consider when thinking of buying EV is tyre wear.

...

the first set of tyres lasted 5½k miles! With careful driving he managed to stretch the next set to 7½km miles.

What're they doing? It sounds like something is wrong with the tracking. Our MG4 is still on its original tyres after more than 15,000 miles and they look like they'll last a while yet. Some of that is trundling around, but some is also somewhat "spirited" driving.

My old Zafira only used to get around 20,000 miles, so wear seems pretty much the same.

Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger.

[PLD]

With regard to charging infrastructure; some 'back of envelope' maths...

My car does approx. 500 miles on a tank of petrol. It takes no more than 5 minutes to fill up. That's 1 minute 'occupancy' of a pump per 100 miles.

The nearest equivalent all-electric model claims a range of 240 miles and 3.5 hours to full on a 'super-fast' charger. That's approx. 87 minutes 'occupancy' of a charger per 100 miles.
Even at the claimed 80% full in 90 minutes (why does the last 20% take longer than the first 80% btw??) That's 90 minutes for 195 miles or approx. 48 minutes 'occupancy' of the charger per 100 miles.

So, if everyone was to 'fill up' at a public forecourt in the current manner and assuming the same opening hours as present, we'd need around 48 chargers for every one pump there is now.

Even if we assume half of all charging can be done at home/overnight on private chargers, that's still 24 public chargers needed for every one pump there is now.

The local supermarkets mostly have 10-12 pumps each so that would mean something in the region of 250 charging bays at every supermarket! I haven't counted, but that's about double the size of the carpark at my nearest one where they have just doubled the number of chargers to 8...